Hello, i do not know if this thread is still active but i have been researching for ways to replicate MDMAs effects with certain substances and i would like to hear from someone with more knowledge about combining things like cocaine with levadopa, kanna, hordenine (not sure about combining this MAOI with SSRI Kanna), rutin, EGCG, and possibly 5-htp or NALT powder. I know a large combination of levadopa and cocaine can be toxic and that abusing serotonin may cause serotonin syndrome so i am wondering if there is a safe recreational combination of any of these things. These things really interest me though for some reason and i would like to talk to someone with more knowledge
Hi screech,
I too am interested in mimicking MDMA's effects and pharmacology.
I refer you to several thread on the old Nature's Herb Yuku forum - which is totally active by the way, I post there regularly as well as a few others
Here is some relevant info to achieving MDMA like effects:
For those of you that are unaware, MDMA is primarily manufactured from the safrole found in sassafras essential oil.
Many bioassays of sassafras and even pure safrole show little activity. Usually a slight sedative effect, and very mild MDMA-like effect might be felt if you’re lucky. Although a few people report almost full blown MDMA-like effects from sassafras as is, most people get no effects. This points in the direction of human metabolism altering the effects of safrole.
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herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/3859758/MDMAlike-effects-sassafras-cinnamon-German-chamomileThis plant's [Kanna] active alkaloid is mesembrine, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Mesembrine is also a PDE4 inhibitor, which should account for many of the adaptogenic effects.
As a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it should have many of the empathogenic effects of MDMA.
As an SSRI, it will flood the synapses with serotonin, which will activate all the serotonin receptors like MDMA does. We'll get oxytocin release from 5-HT1A, hyperlocomotive effects from 5-HT2B, psychedelic effects from 2A...
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herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4279800/KannaMDMA doesn't agonize 5-HT2A or C, it only agonizes 5-HT2B. MDMA releases serotonin which indirectly activates all serotonin receptors, resulting in some psychedelic activity.
...
...oxytocin is vital to the effects of MDMA and should be included with phenethylamine.
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4185321/Mescaline-and-elemicin-similar-metabolites-form?page=4
I think sugar also releases serotonin, which releases oxytocin, causing the same peaceful sensations as MDMA. It also releases orexin which causes mental and physical stimulation like MDMA, but raises levels of pretty much all neurotransmitters (I think).
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4103942/The-Mind-Altering-Effects-of-Sugars?page=1
Valerenic acid agonizes 5-HT1A, 5-HT2B, and very strongly agonizes 5-HT5A. These are all 5-HT sites agonized by LSD.
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4008282/Valerian-Root-Oil-as-a-Psychedelic
So theoretically, we would need a 5-HT2B agonist, oxytocin releasing agent (aka 5-HT1A agonist), something to increase Orexin levels (wakefulness promoting substance) and a stimulant of some sort.
And the ultimate info nugget, thanks to toastus
That's why MDMA was so good at causing euphoria. It did everything possible to maximize euphoria: dopamine release, dopamine reuptake inhibition, norepinephrine release and reuptake inhibition (for stimulation in the brain)(correct me if I'm wrong but was it also a direct agonist of adrenergic receptors? which ones?), serotonin release and reuptake inhibition (to release oxytocin, which silences fear responses, enhances dopamine release, kills addiction, and facilitates social bonding), and whatever else it did.
So what we need to mimic MDMA to produce optimum euphoria is:
- Dopamine release and reuptake inhibition (which can be done through PEA and B vitamins)
- Some form of stimulation that enhances euphoria in the brain in the same way MDMA does
- Oxytocin release
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4007580/Ultimate-Phenethylamine-Potentiation?page=16
Quote from sam7777:
"In some form the stimulation of histamine and orexin receptors within the hypothalamus will lead to the downstream release of NE and some DA."
From another source:
-"...histamine is an endogenous wake-promoting amine and therefore histamine blockade (e.g., diphenhydramine) often results in sedation.
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/11664198/Histamines-and-psychoactive-drugs
Orexin:
Orexins (peptides) strongly excite various brain nuclei (neurons) to affect an organism’s wakefulness by affecting their dopamine,norepinephrine, histamineand acetylcholine systems.
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4112709/Orexin
-http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/4112709/Orexin
******NOTE: potentially DANGEROUS combination due to the SSRI effects of Kanna******
Theoretically, an initial starting point would be:
*Kanna (Kanna's PDE4 inhibition will also increase cognition via cAMP and eliminate sleep deprivation symptoms)
*Valerian (5-HT1A, 5-HT1B, 5-HT5A)
*Lemon essential oil (5-HT1A, oxytocin [also releases Orexin], 5-HT3 antagonsism and some acetylcholinesterase inhibition)
*Olive leaf (GLP-1 agonist. GLP-1 is a gut hormone that can activate/excite orexin neurons in the hypothalamus - which increases orexin)
*Properly activated phenethylamine (PEA)
Potentially, cacao been extract would be a good choice. The PEA can also be combined with an SSAO inhibitor (such as Glucosamine/lysine/caffeine/cranesbill) to further increase it's effects)
As a stimulant:
*Cinnamon essential oil (Adrenergic)
*Kola Nut; Guarana (caffeine & similar substances. Kola But is good general synergizer. Both, but notably Guarana last a long time)
*B vitamins (to supply the body with necessary fuel)
*Histamine releasing agent (optional as directly agonising the Orexin receptors will release histamine)
Optional, but these likely will have a big influence on the quality of the experience:
*All vitamins and minerals (I would tend to take a "shotgun approach" and ensure my body has sufficient levels of all vitamins and minerals)
*A balanced mental and emotional state, lets call it being "Zen"
*A fully optimised neurological system ie low prolactin levels, fresh neuronal circuits as a result of NMDA Antagonsism...etc
I personally would prefer Kola Nut (due to my partial dislike of being in an adrenaline fueled state) but it all depends on the users requirements and current physiological status.
Hope that was thorough & succinct enough
It has definitely refreshed my knowledge on these things and has given me an opportunity to condense info on mimicking MDMA